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Episode Description:

In this dynamic episode of The Type A+ Podcast, host Beth Lawrence sits down with Kerry Barrett, an Emmy award-winning Broadcast Journalist and Public Speaking coach, to delve into the art (and science) of public speaking.

Kerry shares her secrets to conquering stage fright, navigating career transitions fearlessly, and leveraging your unique journey to navigate through the change. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a working mother, or a seasoned professional contemplating a pivot, Kerry's insights will inspire and empower you to embrace the spotlight with confidence and finesse. Tune in to discover how to captivate any audience and unleash your inner orator!

Kerry’s Bio:

Kerry Barrett is the preeminent public speaking and on-camera performance and delivery coach for lawyers and executives. She teaches virtual & video presence and on-camera readiness for a broad spectrum of situations ranging from formal talks, video content & social media & media interviews to everyday sales pitches over Zoom.
As an Emmy Award-winning network news anchor who overcame a debilitating fear of public speaking, Kerry offers a unique perspective as someone who has 25 years of experience in front of the camera. Kerry’s specialty is teaching people how they can become relatable to their audiences and make that genuine connection. She offers a variety of keynotes, workshops and corporate trainings, digital programs, 1:1 and group coaching, VIP Days and intensives to help people feel confident, sincere and energetic, yet relaxed on-screen, create marketing and sales content, close more deals, create a more engaged workforce and prepare for media opportunities.

Links mentioned in the episode:

HOST:

Beth Lawrence LinkedIn

Beth Lawrence Meetings & Events Instagram

The Type A Plus Podcast Instagram

Beth and other Type A+ Guests will be back each week, delivering bite-sized tips on how to optimize your work and life.

GUEST:

Kerry Barrett's Website

Kerry Barrett LinkedIn

Episode Transcript can be found below:

Beth Lawrence: Hi everyone. Welcome back to The Type A+ Podcast. I'm thrilled to have Kerry Barrett on with us today. We met on LinkedIn, but I have known about her for a very long time. Very excited to introduce you to her. Kerry please introduce yourself and tell the listeners a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Kerry Barrett: Oh, well, thank you, Beth, so much for having me. And yes, apparently we go back way back to 2008, which is when I first moved to Philadelphia and worked on air at the Fox station there. So yes, I am an Emmy award winning host and a former news anchor. I help lawyers and executives and business owners to some degree with developing their on camera presence.

They're speaking for client pitches, for media opportunities, for events, webinars, podcasts, panel discussions. So i've got two decades of experience not just public speaking but speaking in front of the camera. I overcame my own debilitating crushing fear of not just speaking In front of people, but even really being seen.

So now I help, serve the person who I used to be, except in the form of oftentimes a lawyer or an executive. 

Beth Lawrence: Oh, that is fantastic. What a gift that you're able to take yourself from where you were and now not only be able to go on that journey yourself, but take other people through it. Especially with something as Nerve wracking as being on camera and speaking in front of people.

I know, doing events and working with public speakers a lot. There are people that are just born to do it and really hone in on their craft. And then there are people that really need that help. and now so many of us have a voice with our own brand. So I'm so glad that you're able to do that. So tell me, are you a type a person? Do you identify as a type a person?

Kerry Barrett: I do there. I will say there's some wiggle room. I'm not type a about everything. and my type a tendencies have morphed a little bit over the years. Like I used to be. Super anal, ridiculous about my house being tidy. Now it's like, if somebody has to come over to pick up their kid, it's like a, just a mad dash around the house to make sure nobody has stripped down at some point in the living room and left their dirty socks and underwear on the floor.

I have three kids. The youngest is six. So that's a possibility. So things have changed. Uh, but absolutely. I think. Probably a good majority of the people you watch on your local news or you see Speaking especially in a large venue or to a lot of people have some of those tendencies because They're so heavily focused on crafting their message and their skill.

We all strive for that perfectionism thing, even though we think it's ridiculous. And we like to pride ourselves on our type A tendencies, helping us do that really. It's just the source of never ending stress. 

Beth Lawrence: A hundred percent. Absolutely. You said it best. It's funny because there's definitely a dichotomy with being type A and, there's the great parts about it that make us determined and, you know, really get through any obstacle.

But there's also the parts of it, like you said, that really chase perfectionism, which doesn't actually exist. You mentioned not only a fear in the past of speaking and public speaking, but a fear of being seen. And that's something that I. Really and heard. And that's something that I really identify with and can empathize with.

So can you tell listeners a little bit about that? 

Kerry Barrett: I sure can. I'd love to hear your story as well, because you're great at doing this. Like, you're a great interviewer and you have such a dynamic presence, but I know from speaking with you, this is something that you struggle with as well. And neither of us are alone in any of this.

There's a lot of people out there listening and watching who, even if they don't admit it fully to themselves, have a fear and that's why they don't show up at. I have a friend who is a former producer at the today show. And I'll dive a little bit into this and then answer your question if that's okay.

And she left the news industry. She started her own business. She helps founders tell their stories. And in the beginning of her business, despite the fact that she has worked in the news industry for a long time, she didn't want to quote unquote, show up. And I say quote unquote, because we use that word or that term.

So interchangeably, but she didn't want to get on social, for example, and promote her business. And then she realized I have the privilege of having access to technology, cameras, computers, all these social media platforms. I know how to develop my audience.

So that idea of I don't want to do it is such a privileged in her words. It's such a privileged mindset because you have it. Why not take advantage of it? So to go back to answering your question when I was Oh my gosh, my fear goes back to, like, I can't even really think of a time that I didn't have it, but I remember specifically becoming quite aware of it in about seventh grade, and I had to do a report with five of my classmates and it was in science, which I happen to be very good at.

It wasn't that I didn't understand the topic, but I was terrified. And like for six months, I'm not even kidding you. I had an excuse every day about why I couldn't do it. I lost my voice. I don't feel good. My dog ate my homework, my whatever, like. I could literally not bring myself to do it. Eventually, I had to, and I sort of hid behind everybody and, got up there and read my paragraph like this, and didn't look at anybody, and had a very monotone, staccato sort of delivery. So speaking in public was never something that was going to be like on the news. Have you lost your mind, Kerry? So I was going to be a veterinarian.

I started in pre veterinary medicine, that had always been my professional and academic goal. And I was in college for a year and a half, three semesters. Organic chemistry was a complete and utter disaster and put a very decise end to that particular goal. And I took a year and a half off.

I had no idea what I wanted to do, but my school at the time had done or had started a communications program and Clemson is where I went for my undergrad. It was very broad. It was like, speech pathology and business language and international communications. And there was some PR and marketing a little bit of journalism.

So I enrolled in that. I was trying to make up for lost time. Cause I, I'd taken some time off to figure out what it was that I wanted to re enroll in. So I was like jamming my schedule full of credits. And I think I had 24 credits, you know, full load is 12. I wanted to figure out how I could jam another three in there.

And so I was busy Monday through Friday, 8am to 6pm. So I had to find something that I could do to add another three credits to my schedule, which ended up being an internship and what industry has, a 24, seven, three 65 business model, the news industry.

So I got an internship at W Y F F, which is the NBC affiliate in Greenville, Spartanburg, South Carolina, and loved it from day one, still terribly shy. You know, mortified to have to try and get somebody off the street to come over and talk to the reporter for an interview that they had to do. But still loved the storytelling and the adrenaline at that point, it was mostly like just terror, but there was some adrenaline there.

And so then I had to figure out how I was going to not only get good at this, not just get over the fear, but get good enough that somebody would actually. Pay me to do it. And that began to maybe use it an overly grand word that sort of began the odyssey from going from that place of total fear to actually getting pretty darn good at it.

And the confidence was forged in those moments of insecurity and like the head trash and the imposter syndrome. And that just frankly, honestly being bad at what I did, but it was a process. 

Beth Lawrence: Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. I would never have guessed that you were, you know, six months of excuses of not wanting to speak in class.

Kerry Barrett: It's pretty rough. 

Beth Lawrence: It is, yeah. You touched on so many different things. I love that you Saw something that you loved, but it scared you, but you took that, you harnessed that fear and said, okay, we're going to use this adrenaline and we're just going to keep pushing myself until I reached that goal.

Was that really how it was? 

Kerry Barrett: It definitely wasn't a linear process. I'll say that. And I don't think I, I didn't have the words to put to the process then that I do now or in looking back, understanding what it was. That sort of got me through that journey.

And we're always on the journey. I'm still improving. Hopefully the journey is not over, but in looking back, I recognize that it was I lived overseas when I was a kid, I moved around a lot. I think that probably without realizing it at the time inspired my interest of.

No, despite being terribly shy and introverted and all this other stuff, I was interested in people and cultures and seeing new things and getting that behind the curtain peek at people's lives. And I think that was always in me, like that sort of storytelling component, but I didn't really recognize it until I was in, in the middle of the internship and was able to look back and connect all the dots.

Beth Lawrence: Yes. Yes. I totally, I mean, it's definitely not something usually that you're self aware enough to see, I guess. Yeah.

Kerry Barrett: Oh, I knew I was terrified. I didn't know how to, I didn't know how to get to the end of that. 

Beth Lawrence: So what was the moment that made you say, you know what? I am scared, but I want, I want this enough to go for it.

Kerry Barrett: Well, you know what? That's a really good question. Nobody's ever asked me that quite that question in quite that way. And so I knew there was no going back. I had always, I mean, since I was, you know, Teeny tiny tiny, like my first memories are like even thinking about what I wanted to do.

I was going to be a veterinarian. I always had dogs and cats and horses and fish and turtles and get like, uh, there was a menagerie in the house. I just always. It was always what I was going to do. Plus, I didn't have to really talk to people that much. I didn't think, in the mind of a child. I was only talking to animals.

So, I knew there wasn't any looking back. I have made so many choices that were based on taking calculated risk. When I look back on this, I think that's what it was. I really like this. I was panicked about the timeline. I did want to get better at this skill because I knew regardless it was going to help me in the long run if I could figure out how to at least be able to look at someone when I was standing up on a stage and talking to them.

And so I think this confluence of all these different elements. I didn't ever really even question it. I remember my dad being like, Oh, broadcast journalism is super competitive. There's a not that many markets. Although it's not like every town you go into and I'm not denigrating sales, but you can move almost anywhere. There's like 150 markets, you know, in the entire country. So you have maybe 150 places you can look for a job. And you're not starting in New York or Philadelphia or even in the top 50.

So you've got maybe 50 places you can look for a job. And what are the odds at that moment in time that. a position that you're qualified for is open. Not very many. And if there is one that's open, there's 500 other people applying for it as well. So I remember my dad saying, this is, am I paying for this?

But in my mind, the decision was done. Their failure was not an option. I was going to make this happen. And I went on and got my master's degree because I knew I wasn't quite ready. I still wasn't ready after my master's degree, but I was a little bit more ready. And I probably did apply to 300 different jobs, and some of them weren't even jobs that were posted.

I just sent my stuff to markets that I had a remote possibility of working in and one of them got picked up and that's how I managed to get my foot in the door, but it was very, your voice doesn't sound right. Uh, we have too many blondes. Um, there's somebody with a similar last name.

You're not very good. I mean, it's just, it was crushing, crushing, especially for somebody that already struggled with this, but I had a job lined up before I graduated and. That was good. 

Beth Lawrence: Wow. So calculated risk. Absolutely. And putting yourself out there. Also, you didn't listen to the possible naysayers because you already knew what you wanted.

Kerry Barrett: I think I had to make this work. I wasn't moving back home that much. I can assure you. 

Beth Lawrence: Yes. Oh my goodness. We do have a very similar story. So very quickly, cause the listeners have heard this before, but I went into college as an English major, took one English class and was like, No, I cannot be a professor.

I can't teach the same thing every year. Thought about going into journalism. It was right when everything was shutting down in terms of the newspapers and things like that. So everyone was telling me no. And I actually found events through speaking with my advisor at the time.

And when I told my parents, I was going to events, they were like, that makes sense. Cause just my personality, I've always been an event person, but I graduated. During a recession, there was absolutely no event positions available. So similar to you, I said, I cannot move home. I'm from the middle of the woods.

I can't, no one's planning events there. So I wound up having to take multiple roles and sort of like piecemeal my career together.

Kerry Barrett: Well, it sounds like you similar to me. You're like, and sometimes this is good. And sometimes it's Not, but it's like, I am holding on to this friggin steering wheel.

I am white knuckling it and I am muscling my way through. It's going to be really ugly and I don't know what the end is going to look like, but I'll be damned if I'm not getting there. Yeah. 

Beth Lawrence: A hundred percent. That's exactly how I felt. Yeah. It's like white knuckling it and like the steering wheel shaking and you're we're going to get there wherever there is.

Yeah. So now, you were a journalist and you were, on television and some of the biggest markets and you've won awards and now you take that, fear and, and your triumph over that fear and you help other people triumph over it. So talk about the transition between being employed by someone to now you're the face of your own brand. 

Kerry Barrett: Well, there's a couple of things that I realized.

First of all, I don't know anything about running a business. That was the very first thing I realized and I realized it really quickly. 

Beth Lawrence: None of us do. And it doesn't take long to realize that. 

Kerry Barrett: I was at a networking event. I really didn't even have like an offer, like something I was selling. I left the news industry with no plan and no runway.

I was at NBC in New York city. My contract was up. I was a mess. I love morning shows, but I had just had my third kid and I was like a zombie like marriage on the rocks, no social life, just not at all who I wanted to be. And when my contract was up, it was either. You're gonna sign for another four years because that's what the contract was, or you're gonna jump now, so I did jump but again very last minute, no plan at all what I was going to do I actually did originally think that I was going to go into PR because so many former like newsies that's what they do. Anyway. I digress.

So I was at a networking event and I had at that point thought that maybe I was going to begin doing some sort of coaching. And I remember somebody asking me how I was going to scale that. And I was like, I don't even know what you're. 

Beth Lawrence: Pause. That is the most annoying word in, in any new business owners.

Please don't ask anyone how they're going to scale something right away, please. 

Kerry Barrett: No, I didn't even have an offer. First of all, I didn't even know what scale meant. I was like, stand by, Google, what does scale mean? And they're like, do you have a funnel? And I was like, holy, I don't know what that is either.

 How are you going to grow it? Maybe, maybe if you're going to ask the word, ask it in a language that the person understands and don't ask them like a week into things. I don't have any idea. I don't even have a, I'm not even registered as a business yet. 

Beth Lawrence: Right. Unless you're on shark tank.

No one wants these questions that early in your business. 

Kerry Barrett: Most challenging part for me outside of having to learn how to run a business, which was, you might as well have been like teaching me how to fly a jet in Arabic. Like it was all brand new,. I was going from doing the thing, like being the on camera person to teaching the thing, which was a whole.

Entirely different skill set. So I actually got a position as an adjunct professor at Keene University, which is up closer to me in northern Jersey, teaching public speaking. And yes, it's a different audience, they're students. So they're not business owners.

So their investment in the learning is different, etc. But It taught me how to structure a curriculum and it taught me how to try and draw answers out of people and the coaching part and then the actually teaching them the skills, which is the consulting side of what I do.

So it brought all of those things together and I didn't have it all figured out within the first two semesters, but I had started to understand it. So anyway, those were the two biggest challenges. And then despite the fact that I had been on camera for so long, I didn't have any business social accounts.

So I had to I started a linkedin account and I didn't really know what I was doing other than I knew I could post videos on there So I would just post videos, you know, not even good stories. Nobody cares. But I could do that anyway. And that coupled with some name recognition from my time in the news, I was able to pull together some clients and really. What do you need? Can I do it? And craft some sort of market research about like where my skills met the demand and I enjoyed what I was doing and I could make money at it.

And that was not a quick process that took a little while to get done. And then what I started to find over the last, I've been in business now for four years, what I've started to find over the last, I'd say two is while I wasn't Really at all marketing toward lawyers or executives. I was really marketing and messaging more towards business owners who I still work with, but I found that executives and lawyers were showing up to use another overused term organically and they would DM me or their handler would DM me and say, we've got a media event, or we're putting together a series of videos for a book launch and These guys are really bad at it.

And so I started to hone and change my messaging to talk to the people who were showing up, who apparently really needed this stuff, and I wasn't even aware of it. And so that's how I got to the place where I am now. 

Beth Lawrence: Wow. Lots of Not trial and error, but lots of research and also going with your gut, which I really love.

It was interesting that you talked about, you're like, I don't know what I'm offering, but I knew, I wanted to teach people, but now how do I teach? And then the opportunity for you to teach and learn how to build that curriculum came in. I feel like sometimes when we ask the universe or God, or however you think of things spiritually, you ask for something, sometimes it falls right into your lap and you just have to decide if, if you want to take it.

Kerry Barrett: And it's interesting too, that you mentioned that. I also think that probably ties back a little bit into that type a, if I'm doing something solely for myself, I'm more than happy to wing it. You know, I'm going to go do this thing. I'm going to jump out of the plane and then figure out how the parachute opens.

But if somebody is paying me or depending on me to provide an outcome and results and transformation. Well, I probably err too far on the other side. I want to learn every single thing that I can, which sometimes as, as some type of errors will tell you leads to that sort of like paralysis by analysis.

I'm going to learn every single thing that I can about this before I go out and offer it to someone. So I'm going to teach at university and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. And the truth is. That it does give you skills, but at least for me, never really erased the lack of comfort.

I mean, it, it, it never took away the doubt. It never fully erased the imposter syndrome. I never fully felt like I was absolutely prepped every time I walked into a situation, but I also think my time in the news taught me, listen, the show must go on. So even if you don't have all those elements together, you can figure them out as things unfold.

And thank goodness I'm not in that place anymore. Like I, I have a program, a few of them actually. And I know generally speaking, with a few tweaks, how I need to structure things so I can teach them and how long that takes and all of that other stuff.

But I never got the resolution perhaps that I was hoping for by checking all those boxes. That's not how it worked for me. I had to do the thing and act and to make it. To make it work. 

Beth Lawrence: Yes. The box checking. We definitely similar in that way, too. I, it's funny. And I think, and I don't know if you found this just in your career.

I find that women are that way more than men, whether they're type a same type a person or not. I think women want to check all the boxes, make sure that we can prove, Hey, look, I know what I'm doing. I did all these things. Whereas men will say, all right, okay. Let's do it. Let's try it.

Kerry Barrett: There was a study and my business coach was telling me about this just last week. There's a study that says if women are applying for a job, you know, the job's posted online and they look at, you need this skill, this skill, this skill, this skill. Women won't apply unless they have I think it's like 87%.

It was a very specific number of the skills that are listed. Whereas men will apply with like 50 percent of the skills. And that's just underscores exactly what you said. There's probably a whole confluence of things that come together to influence that, but you're 100 percent accurate. Yeah. And interesting search bears it out. 

Beth Lawrence: Yes, absolutely.

So you probably work with, I would think a lot of type a people now because you're helping them get over that fear, but also type a people like to have control over their narrative, their brand and all of that. So talk about working with type a people and what that's like. 

Kerry Barrett: It's interesting. I had somebody who watched me on the news up here in New York and wanted to buy his sister a coaching package for her 50th birthday.

And, He said to me my sister is this very like very strong willed, very passionate, very, you know, accused a couple of other sort of assertive adjectives to describe her and he's like, I almost wondered if maybe you were like, too bubbly, but I know sort of a weird thing to say. That's for another day.

And I got in my head a little bit about that. Like, oh, am I, am I too bubbly? Could I be doing better business if I wasn't so bubbly? Would more executives land in my DMs or lawyer types? And what I have realized is that The way that I speak or market myself will bring the right people to me.

There's a certain set of, I'll keep using the executives and lawyers example because I work so often with them. There's a subset who just give it to me straight.

Tell me, be blunt, hit me over the head with it. And I will execute. And then there's another subset who appreciates the velvet fist, if you will. And I get it because I've been on the receiving end in the news industry of both of those types of coaches and consultants and management.

And generally I can suss out during a call What somebody needs based on a number of things, what they look like, what their background is, how they speak, how they reached out to me, et cetera, et cetera. But I do find that even those who are very type a and I'll quote another study. If somebody is learning a skill that they don't particularly enjoy and aren't good at, if they're, if the process of learning it is unpleasant, hard, it'll take them 100 repetitions or more to get it down.

If they are able to enjoy the process, maybe they laugh, maybe they smile. There's some rapport with their coach that a hundred reps drops down to 12 to 14 before they're able to execute. And so I weave that into almost everybody I work with, maybe not right off the bat. They might need a little bit of finessing, but.

Certainly lawyers for the most part fall into that type a not all of them and most of them Might not even recognize it exactly as such but I recognize it because they speak in the language of their expertise. They don't see necessarily outside of the bubble and they're not entirely sure why when they're speaking, they can't just rat a tat tat information.

And one of the things that I talk about regularly is you're not, regardless of whether you're in a media environment you're, I don't know, on MSNBC or Fox business or whatever it is that you want to do, or you are on a client pitch, or you are speaking from the stage because you are looking for lead generation, to bring new clients in or visibility or whatever you're on a podcast.

You have to move from I am simply a deliverer of information to a performance speaker mindset. So you are not just. Ratatat tatting out data and statistics in a monotone type of way. You have to recognize that anytime you're in front of an audience, wherever you are, you are performing something.

If you want to get them there and keep them there and have them remember what you said and inspire them to take some sort of action, whatever it is, meet their sales quota or buy your thing. You have to perform that information and I don't mean I'm not talking about phony. I'm not talking about putting on a personality that is not yours, but you must speak with conviction.

That's probably the easiest way to say it. And you have to Have a speaker's mindset to speak with conviction recognize you might not be going out and looking for 25, 000 paid speaking gigs, but you must develop a speakers and performers mindset in order to compel your audience. And that's probably the biggest mind shift for all of them because they don't, most executives and lawyers don't like to depend on that.

That seems a little more Ephemeral. It's a little more vague. I'm relying on personality, which is hard. It's slippery. There's not data. I can't immediately point to A plus B equals C. And so it's a difficult thing for them to get their arms around, but once they do and they're able to see the difference in the audience, then everything else just naturally elevates.

They certainly understand the skills, but then when they're able to sort of put them on autopilot and focus on delivering to the audience. Everything just blows up. 

Beth Lawrence: It's almost like you're starting to get them to think with both sides of their brain in order to really deliver something because lawyers type a people, executives, they're all day long looking at data, making decisions, making sure that things are going the way that they're supposed to.

They're controlling things, making sure things are going that they're supposed to. They're not necessarily thinking about performing or entertaining. And entertaining is definitely a big part of speaking as someone who produces events and has watched speakers of all different kinds.

If you do not connect with your audience and entertain to your point, even if they're in your industry, you're not going to connect with them. You're not going to get those leads and you're not maybe going to get asked back as a speaker because you can tell. I mean, and sometimes I think as a speaker, how can you, how are you looking out into the room and, and not really.

Noticing that people are not connecting with your message as it's happening. Are you noticing and you just can't do anything about it? Or do you just think I know my stuff? They're going to have to deal with it. 

Kerry Barrett: I think it's probably both. And I, it's interesting. I working with an executive right now who gave her first speaking engagement since we started working together and we haven't been working together that long.

We've had, I think, two sessions so far, three actually. And she said, I looked down to the audience and I could see that there were some people that. We're just tuning me out and there's always going to be that, right? You have no idea what's going on. Who knows? Their mom just went to the hospital.

Their spouse just said they want a divorce, whatever. There's always going to be that. If you're doing everything you can, and you know you're doing everything you can, okay, then you have that part covered. Now you just have to make sure that however many people it is in the audience that you can clearly see are not, are ignoring you and going through their phone or whatever.

Somehow you have to keep that out of your head. And that's what she had trouble with. That's what my client had trouble with. we hadn't worked yet on how to compartmentalize that and recognize that she's not going to catch them. So let's now focus on the people who are here and really bringing in.

bringing it to them, right? With everything you've got. 

Beth Lawrence: That's great advice. Cause I think, especially as Type A people, we tend to look at either the negative reviews or we tend to look at the one or two people that are looking at their phones while we're speaking instead of the, you know, 99 percent of the room that's actually looking at us.

I was going to ask you something from a personal. standpoint, I have a tough time with public speaking because I have a tough time practicing because I sometimes see how far in my mind I have to go to get it into what my mind thinks is perfection. So if you are listening and you're someone like me, or if you've worked with someone like me, how do you get over that fear of just the practice makes perfect?

Why? I don't know why that's so difficult, but what advice would you give to get over that fear? 

Kerry Barrett: I haven't gotten over it yet. So I can't answer that question. I will tell you this, I hated it when I was in the news industry and I hate it now. I hate listening to myself. We used to call it, you know, watching the air check, like watching the newscast that we anchored or reported in or whatever to get better.

And really, and truly it is the only way that you are face to face with what your flaws are. Also the reason we hate it and we'll do everything in our power to avoid it. It is unpleasant. I don't want to come face to face with the fact that I said, um, 55 times in the course of five minutes, or I don't like my hair. Whatever it is, right? Nobody wants to look in the mirror when they know there's going to be a lot of ish there that they don't want to see. I don't know anybody who's ever really overcome that. Even those with the largest of egos, they don't like that either because it challenges their opinion of themselves.

What I will say is that. It is the best way to get better and it's not doing it. It's not delivering in front of the mirror. That's garbage advice. I still see people, you can't deliver a speech well and critique yourself at the same time. So don't even bother with that. Get your phone, put it on a tripod and Practice record and practice.

I say if you're brand new or you're not sure of yourself Ten full times from beginning to end and when you mess up don't start over again Dig yourself out of whatever hole you put yourself in Because it's going to happen in real time And if you don't develop the skills or the muscle memory to learn how to handle those moments, it's going to Completely derail you in a high stakes situation.

So practice through the errors. Don't stop and start over again. 10 times, not just looking at your slides, but going from beginning to end. And then just know you are going to loathe watching yourself. That's okay. Your purpose is greater than how much you loathe watching yourself. And you're never going to get perfect, but you will figure out where those weak spots are that are distracting to the audience.

Those are the most important. Pick one of them, right? I don't know, let's say speak too slowly is the thing that you do because you're aware that you're nervous. And so you slow things down. And so you slow them down too much. I watched that on my first practice run.

Next time I'm going to focus on just that thing. And I'm going to run through beginning to end, focusing on keeping the pacing up and going. Then I'm going to watch that. What did I notice this next time around? Okay, I did all right there, but my stories were somewhat rambling or I was trying to speed up too much and I didn't let the punchline land or whatever the case may be.

Next run, I go through all that. But to answer your question in a very long winded way, and I apologize, there is no secret for getting over that. I've been on camera for a quarter of a century now and I hate that with every fiber of my being and it has not died at all or even lessened since I first started so just recognize that and do it anyway.

Beth Lawrence: Feel that fear and do it anyway. That is so important and thank you so much for giving me advice because it I think it's definitely helpful. And I think it also from working with speakers, if you practice 10 times, you can time yourself 10 times and make sure that you don't go over timing wise from an event planner who really loves to keep things on timeline.

Yes. Please make sure to time yourself. Yes, for sure. So you mentioned your LinkedIn, is that the best way to get for people to get in touch with you or follow you? Because I, I trust that from listening to you, people are going to want to talk to you about coaching and getting better at public speaking.

Kerry Barrett: Yeah, absolutely. LinkedIn. I am on all the social media platforms. I actually just relaunched my Instagram. So there's not a ton of followers on there yet. So hey, feel free to hop on over there and follow me. But if you're looking for the most Regular content if you're interested in my newsletters or my podcast or live streams LinkedIn is where you can go to get all of them and then also if you want to talk free strategy call or you get some information You can find all the links to do that, my calendar link, etc, etc on there as well 

Beth Lawrence: Awesome.

And we will definitely share them in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for coming on. This was wonderful. And I appreciate all the actionable tips you shared. 

Kerry Barrett: My pleasure, Beth. Thank you so much for having me. 

Beth Lawrence: And thank you so much for listening.

We'll be back next time on the type a plus podcast. Take care.