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Episode Description:

There are times in life where we all feel stuck. Whether we’re solving a problem at work, coming to the aid of a family member in crisis, or taking on a brand new challenge in our business, there are times when it seems like a fix for the issue at hand is so far away.

This week’s guest, Kristine Fisher, takes us through her vast and impressive career, balancing time in both the Private and Public Sectors with her roles as a mom, wife, daughter, adventurer, artist, and community supporter. She shares her advice on finding a support system in every season of your life, and why it’s important to have both mentors and coaches in your network.

Kristine’s Bio:

Kristine M. Fisher is the Senior Client Solutions Manager at Nava - a Public Benefit Corporation, working to make government services simple, effective, and accessible to all.

Kristine has expertise that spans nationally across Federal, State & Local Government, Higher Education, Academic Medical, Health Care, Non-Profits, and Municipalities. Her functional areas of expertise are centered around procurement processes, procedures and compliance, as well as strategic alignment between business and partners. Over the course of 25 years, she has curated deep relationships between government and businesses, bridging gaps and creating success stories.

Kristine is a sought-after public speaker and has spoken at numerous conferences and events, including Women in Cloud New York Curtain Raiser and the Annual Ideagen Empowering Women and Girls summit at the United Nations.

Kristine lives in Northern California at the base of Mount Shasta and, in her free time, enjoys volunteering in her community and outdoor mountain activities such as snowshoeing, Nordic skiing and hiking.

Links mentioned in the episode:

HOST:

Beth Lawrence LinkedIn

Beth Lawrence Meetings & Events Instagram

The Type A Plus Podcast Instagram

Beth and other Type A+ Guests will be back each week, delivering bite-sized tips on how to optimize your work and life.

GUEST:

Hire Kristine to Speak

Connect with Kristine on LinkedIn

Episode Transcript can be found below:

Beth Lawrence: Hello listeners. Welcome back to the type a plus podcast. We have a very special guest today. Kristine has been a friend, a client, someone that I absolutely look up to in business and in life. I'm very thrilled to introduce you all to Kristine Fisher.

Kristine, please tell the listeners a little bit about you and your background. 

Kristine Fisher: Hi Beth, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I'm very excited. You and I have worked together for a while now and I think we connect so well because we're both type A and we have a very easy way of working together because we understand how that works.

Let's see. About me. Well, I'm a wife. I am a mother and also professional. I work in the information technology field and I've been in this field now going on over 25 years, one of the first women out there that entered into it via the Air Force right out of college, and over the years have curated a career of being on both sides of the fence working for public sector and private sector.

And Currently I work for a public benefit corporation on capturing new opportunities and then helping to win them. 

Beth Lawrence: We hear a lot of things in there. We hear multifaceted. I love that you started with your personhood, who you are, being a wife, being a mom, and also a professional because you're also a daughter. I know that there are a lot of things that you do with your family and support of your family. So there's so many things that you do. And I think that especially as women and it's type a women, we can overlook some of the titles that we hold or some of the things that are dear to us.

And I'm really glad that you started out with that. So talk to me a little bit about the Air Force, your experience in the Air Force, how much it shaped who you are and your career. Please tell us a little bit about entering the Air Force, what that was like and what you did there.

Kristine Fisher: I was in college and it was my senior year and I was looking for what the next move was going to be. I have a degree in English and during my time at college decided that becoming a teacher or professor was not going to be my path. but I do love the writing, the reading, the interpretation.

It was through an advanced management program called the Copper Cap Program. And it was designed for the upper 10 percent of graduates to come and join.

So I applied, Air Force reached back and within a couple of months I was working for them. This was a, accelerated management program where, You went through four levels in the course of four years, and normally one level takes about 12 years, so went through an entire jump in a matter of four years. During that time, I had to learn the Federal Acquisition Regulation Manual because that's in the, in the contracting field. So, I remember my first day there very, very clearly. Walked in, my manager, contracts officer. She hands me this book, the Federal Acquisition Regs, and it's literally four inches deep of fine, fine paper.

It's very big. And she hands it to me, slides it across the table and says, here, you need to memorize this. And that is kind of how my, my career there started. And because of the program that I was in, we were tested, like we would get, called in front of a panel of four or five lieutenant colonels, upper management, and we were literally quizzed on the different sections and the application of those sections.

 Also I very distinctly remember my contracts officer, my manager, also saying that this was not just any other job. This was a job where No matter who you were within the organization, your main mission was to support the pilots and that not, not literally, but theoretically a pilot's life was in your hands.

You had to do a good job and you had to do the right thing. So the entire mission was to support our pilots and that meant that when we purchased something, it had to be the right thing specifically for that job. So the pressure was there. was intense. The chain of command was completely appropriate for the type of job because everyone had to be on the same path, and without question on the same path.

So that really shaped the rest of my career in how I, I just, I really like order in that way. I like rules. I like that if you keep order and remove the chaos, things are much more efficient. And, understanding how to interpret, law, yet allow for modification. As long as you're modifying it through the processes that are allowed to modify it, things work really smooth. And so it's a measure twice, cut once kind of space, right? So the Air Force really, really, truly shaped me on how I approach work. 

Beth Lawrence: That is an incredible story.

There's so many things that you said in there. First of all, fellow recovering English major. So I see you. I too, I think you'll remember took one English class and said, Nope, that's not for me. And found their way in event planning. But I love that you still use your English degree. You really still use that eye for language and for interpreting language.

so much. In your role, and I feel that I still use parts of that skill set with my role as well. Now you talked about, there's a couple type A things that I want to spotlight in there. Order and rules, you said. Keeping order and removing the chaos creates efficient processes and efficient is my favorite word, so I absolutely love that.

I think keeping order and removing the chaos, that really is the catalyst for creating an effective organization, right? Creating the, the SOPs, the processes, the specs that we're looking at. The fact that you completed a, something that would normally take 12 years, and you completed it in one year.

I think that's the, All that anybody needs to know about you, and your fellow classmates, but the amount of pressure in terms of being a type of person. It's really interesting to me when I think about you because there's a dichotomy because type A people can sometimes be so scared to fail or make a mistake that they don't try and you really Put that on the head and you put yourself out there, not only with having to learn and interpret all a huge book worth of laws that could literally lead to someone's life or death, but also being basically in front of a panel of people, making sure that you understood and interpreted it correctly.

Bring me back to that space. Like, how was that coming out of college? And you are really embarking on this accelerated journey in one of the toughest spaces in our country. 

Kristine Fisher: Well, I think getting to that spot also took many years of curating from how I was raised. My parents, amazing people, and I'm very grateful and very fortunate for my childhood.

 They raised me to believe that I truly could do anything. And so I had a very supportive environment in that way. My father would say things to me like anything can be solved. Now, it's not about something not being impossible or possible, but anything can be solved. And it may not end up being the solution that you're looking for, but at least thinking through a problem, there's a solution to every problem.

Kristine Fisher: So when I'm stuck or when I'm feeling like I can't find a way to move forward, I go back to that. Everything can be solved. You might not always like the answer, but it can. And so, um, I also manage my emotions in that way, that so when you're talking about pressure and being in front of a panel and having to perform or having to recall things under pressure and apply what they mean.

I go back to that. I think that's just innate, where I don't typically come up with an answer right away. I actually. take a pause and think and figure out how to solve what's being put in front of me. I also worked with an engineer many years ago and I use this phrase all the time that, you know, if you want something badly, you're going to get it badly.

And so part of going through my experience at the air force, everything was very calculated, and not necessarily myself creating that, but the environment helped to promote that, and so when you take a combination of everything can be solved, you take a very calculated, repeatable methodology, and then you apply that to what the outcome needs to be, the probability of it becoming successful is much higher.

So, I just, I reiterate on that as I roll through life and something comes across my path, that's how I, that's how I try to maneuver. 

Beth Lawrence: Being raised to believe that you could not only that you could do anything, but Any problem has a solution that really does change your entire worldview, right?

Because you are not thinking, Oh, this is impossible or gosh, I'm never going to solve this. You're thinking there's gotta be a way to solve this. I just haven't found it yet. And I think that makes you extremely valuable in your work and in what you do. And the other thing, when you talked about managing emotions and taking a pause and thinking when someone asks you a question or you're presenting, there's so much power in that.

And I think so often out of nerves, people lose their power when they are presenting on a project that they've been working on when they're answering questions from a panel when they're in an interview. I think people give their power away. Continuing to talk. So those are extremely, extremely valuable.

And I love the phrase. I've definitely heard you say it before. If you want something badly, you'll get it badly. It's absolutely true. And so talk to me about, you know, you're, you're in the Air Force. You're really excelling. It sounds like you were in an environment that you really thrived and you were learning.

Take me through what it was like to go from that really structured environment to your next role. Because you've had many different types of roles and had to wear many different types of hats. So if you wouldn't mind talking me through that process. 

Kristine Fisher: Sure. Well, when I was working for the Air Force towards the end of my time there, that was when a lot of their, there were a lot of base closures and we were working on closing down McClellan Air Force Base where I worked.

 During my time of transitioning the Air Force contracts either to private sector to the state or in a couple cases over to the universities. I came across an opportunity to. Work for the state of California. And thankfully that landed in my favor.

So I was fortunate for that. And so I went from being a contracts officer for the air force to a procurement officer, similar, similar, but a little different role for the state of California. And my role for the state was in purchasing large Information technology projects for on behalf of other agencies.

So I worked for Department of General Services, and we wrote a lot of policy implemented policy training on policy, and then also coordinating with other agencies, very large procurements. So, spent quite a bit of time at the state. It allowed. I love that job. It allowed me to be able to. influence and make a difference for California citizens.

Um, and at the same time, raise my family, you know, be at home. It was excellent benefits. So there's two sides to working for the government. The pay wasn't necessarily as great as private sector, but you received a balance of that. A lot of people think, oh well, you work for the state, you're never going to lose your job.

It's not, I never approached it like that. I approached it as though this was allowing me for this time in my life to, to balance out where my efforts went. So, anyhow, working for the state, working on very large projects, Yet, being able to come home at the end of the day and shift gears and be the taxi mom and take my kids everywhere and be able to be a part of their lives and experience that too.

So, that's why I stayed. I stayed at the state for almost 14 years and held a variety of roles. Aside from the I. T. procurement officer, I spent a couple of years in, the risk and insurance space as the emergency manager for Department of General Services. So I also. Got to see how our state and how most states build out their response to teams and work for it.

And so I was an emergency manager for a couple of years to again, more roles, more processes, collaborating with much bigger teams, and having some influence on how the state of California responds to disasters and emergencies. 

Beth Lawrence: You Talked about influencing. You're using your influence to help people because I think that's definitely also a tendency of type a people we would be like to learn things and then we like to see how far we can spread either the joy, the message, the funds, the campaign, whatever it might be.

 And I also love that you talked about. Balancing it, the intentionality, whether you knew it or not, the intentionality of taking a role that would allow you to balance your family obligations and the joy of raising your family with also the joy of your career. I think that's very challenging for women, for parents, but especially for working moms who really are passionate about their career.

And I think sometimes feel that they have to make some sort of trade somewhere. And I'm glad that you were able to find that balance that you and your family absolutely needed at that time. 

Kristine Fisher: Yeah, I think that having the aspirations and or a dream or a destination for a career, eventually happens, but it's about timing and when it happens.

And so if you're making choices to also have a family, then there's a pace. That goes with that. You can, you can have both. I like to call it more of a blend than a balance because I think that, you know, I always took work home or found time in between while I was sitting at a baseball game in the stands working on some paperwork or whatever.

So I think it kind of comes and goes. And then also, while I was at work, taking the time in the breaks, whether at lunch or, You know, in between, different assignments, concentrating on the family needs. So I don't think there's ever, an on off switch for any of it. I think it all just kind of comes together and you figure out how to take care of all of it.

But that also goes back to that deliberation. At least for me, Having intent on what I was doing and I love, I love checklists and to do lists. And so I kind of lived off of those.

Beth Lawrence: Any occasion where I can make a to do list and cross something off feels excellent to me. Um, so then I know after your 14 years at the Air Force, you went and helped teams who were selling to government agencies. Get those contracts and really evaluate them with a critical eye and put together a proposal that actually meets the needs of those contracts.

So that's something that I know from your expertise and from being able to work with you over the past six years now, almost that takes a type A. So can you talk to me about, okay, I am a, you know, startup salesperson and I want to start selling into the government. I get this RFP. How do you take that critical eye?

Like, what are you looking for? Or what are some common mistakes that people make when, when examining an RFP and creating a proposal?

Kristine Fisher: Well, first, I've been very blessed and I try to be as humble as possible in this space. I've met some incredible people along the way and been provided with some pretty amazing opportunities. So, yes the transition from government to private sector took a little bit of time.

But what I've learned from the private sector folks that I meet, I love the mentality of Well, we're going to win this no matter what. And so there's always this thought process that goes into how do we win an opportunity? Again, that you still have to be very calculated in that. And, So I think there's a couple of elements.

One is having the right team with the right expertise, because not one person can't read the entire thing and have the entire RFP and understand all the perspectives that are needed. So you have to have the right team come together. And then I always think about balancing the proposal. against the ask.

So I put my procurement officer hat back on and I think, does this response check off all the boxes when you work for a government agency? And that's so just to preface that I've always worked in the government space either on one side or the other. Government has a very specific role and that is to manage.

The fiduciary responsibility of the constituents and so a bid process has to have equity in it. So when I'm coaching teams on the private sector side, it's responding to the request or responding to the requirements, but also looking at the evaluation criteria and what is truly being measured in that.

And then, are you also bringing to the table the right certifications, the right percentage of partners that you're going to bring into the bid to meet the state requirements? So there's an administrative component, a technological component, and then having the right minds that can then negotiate the agreement at the end of the day across the table.

What I've learned in this process is that this is not a one person way. You have to have the right people on the team with you and everybody's supporting each other, but also learning how to say no. So not every RFP is for every company. When you're working for a profit entity, there are different drivers for obtaining business. So it's also knowing when to go and when to stop. And sometimes that can be a harder thing to do is knowing when not to bid versus when to bid. 

Beth Lawrence: Oh, yeah, that must be a challenging conversation with some of your clients that. May not be the right fit.

Or may not have everything that it takes for that current RFP. That's challenging as an entrepreneur too. I totally understand that because sometimes you see the big cash cow, you see the big name, you see the big date budget, you, you know, you want that client. So it can be really, really challenging.

When it comes to blending versus balancing, what things do you do outside of work now that bring you joy, that, that feel like they help you then focus that much more when you are working, because I think that's something that's challenging for type a people, especially who are very close to their work and, or who are senior leaders/ entrepreneurs and you are both of those things. So talk to me a little bit about that, finding that blend. And what do you seek out that helps you work in a better way or leave work behind for a little while? 

Kristine Fisher: When I start to get anxious or when I start to feel like. I'm just overwhelmed. I now pay attention to that feeling. I didn't used to pay attention to that feeling and I would just try to push through that. Like I can get to the other side. And that didn't serve me. I could certainly, I could do it, didn't mean I had to do it, right? So now I pay attention to that feeling of, okay, this isn't this, whatever it is I'm working on if it's not smooth and heading in the right direction and I'm coming up against barriers in a variety of spaces and starting to feel too much pressure, too much overwhelm, I pull back now. So I listen, I feel that, I listened to that. And then I do something that makes me happy. Okay. You know, like, um, I recently, I've always had a dream of doing voiceovers and I love public speaking.

And so this last year or so, I decided, well, I'm going to, you know, dip my foot in the water over there. And so finally started working on the voiceover component of. Who I am. And so I find that, like, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, then I'm going to pivot, I'm going to take some time, and whether that's taking a walk, doing some yoga, or finding a way to, calm that feeling down, doing something creative, painting, I'm also an artist, so I like to paint and draw and whatnot, painting, or just, Stepping away for a minute, getting a different perspective.

And I find that that, um, that helps me re energize and then go back into the space where I was working to either meet a deadline or that kind of thing. 

Beth Lawrence: Great. I feel like it's using, Kind of channeling or, or awakening a different part of your brain, right? Sometimes when we're in problem solving mode, logistics mode, our brain almost can't get creative.

So sometimes I think that creativity finally allows your brain to unlock. Um, and for me, I'm curious If this happens for you, but I love art too. I've always loved writing and, and painting and drawing, but I find sometimes that I criticize myself so much, or I want to be so good at these things that are supposed to bring me joy that somehow the joy lesson is there, has that happened to you, A, and B, if it has, how do you shake it off and just continue just with your creative pursuit?

Kristine Fisher: Yeah, that's a really, really good question because. My inner critic is on all the time, um, or that imposter syndrome, like, you know, is this really happening? And how did I get here? And do I really deserve this? Um, yeah, the critic doesn't shut off. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. Um,

Beth Lawrence: I thought you were supposed to solve imposter syndrome. Yeah, that's one thing. 

Kristine Fisher: Solving the inner critic. Um, I think I have softened that I get. I give myself a little more grace now. But that's taken a lot of work, a lot of work.

I think that it's focusing on doing something outside of yourself. So I'm at the point where I can do more volunteer work. I can help my neighbor or find a way to get out of me. And I think that when that, that critic. It's going a little too much. I think that's a little too self obsessed.

And so I have to take myself out of that and realize that there's more to the world than just what I'm thinking or what I need. So becoming more involved in my community, helping a family member, helping out a friend, being a shoulder for someone else to talk to, and, and then, you know, step back into the space where I was before and not be as critical because, I mean, you know, we're, we're really just this little tiny micro being in a planet of billions.

And so you have to take a look out, step out and realize that are my experiences, it's important, but it's not as important as how I contribute to the bigger picture. And that helps my inner critic a lot. 

Beth Lawrence: Thank you so much. That was really insightful. And I think so much so often we're all caught up in our own thoughts and our own, you know, inner narrative, whether it's being nice to us or not.

And so I appreciate the notion that we're all just one being and a big rock curling through space. So finding ways to connect to others outside of yourself sounds like a beautiful way to really. You know, make yourself more inspired at work, but also just more inspired by life in general. So final question for those who are, you know, new in a career like yours that are in high pressure situations that have to wear many hats, be a manager, do the thing, execute the past, be the wife, be the mom. What are your top three tips for getting over that fear of stepping into your own leadership, stepping into your power, and also finding that blended balance in your life?

Kristine Fisher: Well, I think in every facet of life, mentors are incredibly important, whether, you know, being a mom, seeking out other women that are also moms and having your tribe to be able to talk to and work through things, whether that's, you know, a grandmother or your own mother or somebody else's mom, I think that's a really having that support environment is really important.

So I would say, seek out who your support network would be, at work equal, but different. Having the right mentors or coaches. So anyone coming into business, you don't have to have all the answers. You're never going to have all the answers, but to have different perspectives to work with. And again, I've been incredibly fortunate to have wonderful mentors along the way.

 Strong women who have come before me that I've either watched from afar or that I have actually spoken with and interacted with but to have solid mentors that are invested in you and your success, I would say find those. Coaches are different than mentors. So you also need a really good coach and that could be someone that you hire, that could be someone that is in the field that understands the destination on where you're looking to go and how to coach you on how to get there.

 We don't land with all the tools in our toolbox, right? So it's finding those other elements to help you build your toolbox on what you pull from as you evolve through your career. That would be my three suggestions. So have your group of people where you get your support, find good mentors that are invested in you, and then seek out really strong coaches to help ensure that you're on the right path to where you're headed for your destination.

Beth Lawrence: You are speaking to my little type a soul, because I think the thing, the core of what you said is so beautiful, which is that. You never land with all the tools in your toolbox. And so many of us, especially type A people, think that if we don't know, if we don't have the answer, it means that we are no longer valuable.

It's this huge thing if we make a mistake or if we don't know, and the notion that Everybody doesn't know something and not everybody knows everything and that there are people in our lives that we can lean on that are there and excited most of the time, especially if you're in a big corporation where you have many, many people, you have ERGs, you have many different ways to get involved.

They're excited to help you. So I think at the core of it, type A people listening, just make sure you remember that There's something outside of yourself and that it's okay to not have all of the answers. It's okay to be wrong. 

So listeners, I think you can tell just from my conversation with Kristine, she has a wealth of knowledge on many, many different things, but I have heard her speak at different points; extremely knowledgeable, but also, as you can see, comes at it from a place of understanding and is able to help guide you as opposed to just tell you what to do. So, Kristine, if someone wants to book you for a speaking engagement, if someone wants to get in touch with you to hear more about your career, or if someone wants to get in touch with you in your new role, how do they do that?

Kristine Fisher: Well, regarding the speaking side, you can go to my website and that's www.kaleidoscope-works.com and you'll see where my speaking package is and you can find me there.

Regarding my professional work at this time, I work for an amazing company, Nava, and if you'd like to learn more about what we do at Nava, the website there is www.navapbc.com, but that's for publicbenefitcorporation. com, and Our mission, actually, we are a public benefit corporation working to make government services simple, effective, and accessible to all, which, again, really aligns with who I've evolved to at this point.

It's taken many, many years to curate this, but, what an amazing company and the people that work there. Truly also amazing. So if you on the professional side, I work for Nava now on the public speaking side. I have my own space So thank you for asking about that 

Beth Lawrence: Yeah, of course. I I love that. There are different ways that listeners can get in touch with you depending on what Type of information they are looking for, or how they want to engage with you and it sounds like you've landed at a truly perfect place for you that blends together your extreme wealth of knowledge within your concentration, but also your passion for helping people and connecting people to resources that normally would be out of their reach.

So I want to commend you for that. It sounds like you're working for a wonderful organization and I'm hopeful that those listening will want to learn more information, not only about you, but about the organization that you're with as well. Thank you, Kristine, for joining me today.

I, there's truly not enough words that I could say about you and about what I think of you. And I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with all of the listeners and hopefully we can have another one of these conversations one day. 

Kristine Fisher: Thank you, Beth, for all that you do. All the parts that you pull together of people, you're right.

We've worked for many years and I'm so grateful for you and all that you have brought into my life too. So thank you for the opportunity to meet with you today. 

Beth Lawrence: You're welcome. And it was my pleasure. And thank you so much everyone for listening. We will be back next time with a new episode of the type a plus podcast.

Take care.